Thanks. The remote control module sits beside this area (I have it floating but I'll put double stick tape and mount it to the interior soon) and the antenna lead drops through a grommet (conveniently already available at the bottom of the unit near the pcb) to the outside. Dont hesitate to switch the tees around if you get them backward. I don't hear the heater "fire up" right away when the tap is opened and can't tell if the recirculation pump is running. Yes!!! Press either the Up and the Down button to switch between any of these recirculation settings: Set the pump in the bucket and plug it in. The large valves should be in the off position, whereas the service valves should be in the on place. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. Remove the inlet filter and wash it under the running water with the help of a brush. Reassemble the heater and turn on the hot and cold water valves. It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. I have a clog, When the faucet is on the unit is indicating flow rate of 1.4 GPM which seems plenty and the recirculation mode is set to external & always on. If you look at the instructions, which tech support emailed to me, there is a Signal 1 input for 12 or 5V devices including remote controls or motion sensors BTW the other remote was sold out. I can figure out occupied or not from a home automation or alarm system. Timers and wifi sockets are quite cheap. This can be determined based on the following factors: The average water usage for different hot water uses are as follows; Check this too: Insinkerator Hot Water Dispenser How-to & Troubleshooting Guide. It's unfortunate he's not around to explain all this to you. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. I installed this system a few days ago and I've been trying to trouble shoot the noise that's coming from the re-circulation pump. I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. A place for plumbing advice and help. Calculator + Chart (Natural Gas), Average Gas Bill For 1-Bedroom Apartment: State-By-State Cost Analysis, Average Electricity Bill For 4 Person Household (Survey Analysis), How Many kWh Per Day Is Normal? Then turn on the heater and then your pump. Neither reason is likely to be correct but we would need a much more in depth knowledge of the hot water distribution system and the circulation line in particular. There are several ways to do it. Note on tankless hot water heater recirculation pumps (double trouble solved). This may require chasing the supply lines. This gives users hot water when they need it, saving water and money. Navien's patented ComfortFlow system is the first to include a buffer tank, recirculation pump and fine-tuned controls into a tankless water heater, resolving the cold-water sandwich effect* and issues of minimal flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. This breaks down the scale and flushes out the sediment. For example, you will see Navien error code 003 on the display screen, which means the igniter is malfunctioning. Your Navien Recirculation Pump will make a humming noise like a refrigerator if you dont bleed the air out of the recirculation system. Here is the final install. He obtained his Bachelor of Science degree from the University Of Texas at El Paso. You just have to set the timer as you use it. Where does the circulation return line tie in, and where is this in relation to the Naviien unit, other fixtures, and appliances in the home? Below, I will break down everything to stop the buzzing noise. I broke down all the possible reasons that cause your Navien Recirculation Pump to produce a humming noise. Patrick. How? Shut off the appliance for half an hour and then restart. If youre using this pump and cant fix it yourself, you can call a professional mechanic to fix it. It tells you about the improper operation of the flow sensor. When the heat exchanger starts to crack, it creates a gap that can escape toxic exhaust gasses. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot, Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, Easy DIY Media Cabinet Build with Basic Tools, From Cast-Iron to Stainless-Steel: How to Replace Your Kitchen Sink, While theres no water in the pump, do not turn on the recirculating pump. The recirculation timer is set to operate ever 15 minutes, even though we are often not at the property. Reconnect the power supply to the water heater. Check the wiring and cold water inlet two thermistors and make sure both are in good condition. I am contemplating getting the NPE-180A and controlling the pump with a remote control in each bathroom. These processes are so easy that you can even install a water recirculating pump by yourself! All you have to know is how to turn it off. Wash it under the water with a brush, let it dry, and then place it back. What disadvantages, beside cost???? Because the recirculation pump ran with no water, the motor ended up burning out. Perhaps not everyone is familiar with the newer manual. qc = the circulating water flow [m3/s] If we take that the average price of water is $0.18/gallon (according to Statistas 2019 study), heres how much you can save on water with a recirculation pump: Water Savings = 2,920 gallons/year * $0.18/gallon = $525.60/year. All in all, its important to understand that recirculation pumps are worth the money. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Then, turn it on again. T = the water cooling, normally 5 C determined at the farthest consumption point [C]. Privacy Policy. Unplug the power to your Navien water heater. Here is the list of all the parts you need to install a recirculation pump. Video of the Day Step 2 Check the three wires are connected to the plug terminals. Some sort of noise out of your Navien recirculation pump is normal. The filter is located at the top left of the water heater. This may temporarily help to remedy the issue. The error code E736 informs about the issue in cascade communication, and error code E740 indicates that the outdoor temperature sensor is not working correctly. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. But, yes, I understand why it seems feasible for the sediment to eventually enter the water flow and cause the change in taste of water. For example, if you have a person showering and another individual shaving. Now, that comes to the question, can I turn off my hot water recirculating pump? Reinsert the filter into the plastic assembly. Solar panels, wiring, old TVs and sometimes DIY powerwalls. Press the reset button to reset your device. Continue reading below Our Video of the Day 1. After using this amount of time, hardware gets old and starts to malfunction. If your system is re-circed as close as possible to the fixtures (ask yourself do I have two hot waterlines for each fixture?) I just hooked up the NR-20DU wired remote control ($80 from Fergusons) and programmed 3 on/off recirculating cycles based on family needs. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Hello David, well, the additional costs are a con here. The heater turns off automatically when the flue pipe surpasses 149 degrees Fahrenheit. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. Costs associated with hot water circulation pumps (parts + installation + DIY savings). By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. JavaScript is disabled. Make sure the electrical cord is grounded. Do you want to know the details? The number of bathrooms, tubs, dishwashers, and washers. Way too many variables to even begin to diagnose online IMO. 2. Plug n play (after removing front panel to access the plug). Advantages and disadvantages of hot water circulation pumps. You need a crossover valve installed under one of your faucets that is far away from the water heater (there are a few different styles but they all have four connections and get installed under a faucet). The setup is correct and the only two settings you need are P.12 for recirculation time and P.16 for length of recirculation line from farthest point in the house. You can crack open the manual for your tankless heater and check if it comes with that option. What kind of range do you get from the remotes? Quite surprisingly for most homeowners, the biggest problem with this type of recirculation pump is getting cold water. Can you turn it off in a tankless that has it built in? You dont have to install an additional pipe. I am having issues with it ever since: water to certain places in my house seems to just stay warm (kitchen sink and master bathroom) unless I fully open the faucet all the way on hotand then still I have to wait a minute plus for the water to heat up. Is there a way to tell if the cold pipe is circulatory/return line or cold water from the mains? Rather than using the hard wired door bell style push button that comes with the kit, I bought this remote control unit (. Also, as I'm taking a closer look at it, I'm concerned that some key things may be amiss. Empties the water pipes so the next time youll need hot water fast, it will meet less resistance in the piping and it will arrive at the faucet in a matter of seconds. What parts does a home water recirculation pump include, and where to install it. It tells you about the abnormality of the external tank thermistor. Can I swap out the mainboard in the NR240A to an NPE240A board to get all that features? Examine and confirm the pressure sensor and wiring are in good condition. I mounted the contact switch inside the cabinet per the kit instructions. Hi Mike, we think about water as hot vs. cold. Allow it to dry and then fix it back. However, this is only a temporary fix. Check to see if the warranty is still valid and contact the manufacturer. Answer: It really depends on your model type. Buzzing noise out of the recirculation pump will be general if you or your plumber dont mount the pump securely. The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. A recirculation system is a hot water line that runs throughout the house and returns back to the water heater. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? Eric Alvarez is an HVAC guy based in El Paso, Texas, United States. Ensure you mount the pump securely. The error code E445 tells about the defect of the bypass mixing valve. If the problem does not get resolved, replace the motherboard or control board or hire a professional t do it. The timer has control over when the pump is working continuously. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after youve turned it off for your safety. This might be a small installation error or a faulty setting. (42-167 Amps), How Much Propane Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? The plumber said that he tied in both in the master bathroom and the kitchen but Ill crawl under the house to validate this. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? my understanding of the Navien with internal recirc pump is that they work with either an external dedicated return pipe or an internal bypass loop located within the water heater cabinet. In fact, however, the whole machinery of the hot water recirculating pump has to be activated for this to happen. Some brands/models dont include it. 08. Once the display stops flashing, the temperature setting is stored. However, the unit comes equipped with a standard 120V appliance cord and operates between 200 and 300 watts. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. Why isn't my Navien tankless water heater performing as it should? This happens when you have a huge heater and lower gas output. Confirm the thermistor and wiring is in good condition. Here are the leading causes of strange noises coming from your heater; Hire a professional or installer to repair your heater to avoid damaging the heater and voiding your warranty. When we dont have to use it, why keep it on? Ensure the recirculation pump was installed correctly. 1. Take care! Crazy coincidence that I ran into your post because I've been researching the same issue. How is an ETF fee calculated in a trade that ends in less than a year? IF it does, could it be controlled remotely? It can take anywhere from 10 seconds to 1 minute for the hot water to reach the faucet. So, hire a professional to deal with the issue. Great article!! Depending on the size of the pump and installation difficulty, the average cost of a hot water recirculation pump costs anywhere from $200 to $800 (installed). We were advised of this upon installation. We hope we were able to help you out with our guide. This unit doesnt have dip switches as far as I undersrand. 30000466A Navien Circulation Pump NAPU9GLPCT33 . Therefore, the total peak demand of hot water needed is the ideal size of the heater you should get. Hi. I have 5 connections including the recirculation in. Is the plumbers reasoning valid here? 2. Also, check the feeder valve and pressure relief valves activity. Then, you can change the tank thermistor if needed. You can return the item for any reason in new and unused condition: no shipping charges ; You can tell because the cold supply line is connected to the circulating return. All you have to do is browse through our guides, answers and personal experience documentations to find out what you should (or shouldn't) do when going off the grid. It clips on the side of the PCB board without screws and then you connect a ribbon cable to the PCB. I recall it was p23 but it was definitely larger than p20. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Make sure there are no loose connections. On top of that, the recirculating pumps also return the cold water in the pipes back to the heater. = 4.5 x CFM x h (std. I obviously dont know much about this but the plumber is giving reasons that feel like he is making up dont make sense to me: 1. Then check to see if the plumbing lines and the heaters water lines are clogged. Where does this (supposedly) Gibson quote come from? Working well so far. Then, tighten up the cap again once you remove all the air from the loop. It sounds almost like cavitation or a magnet rubbing against the casing as the recirculating pump winds down. To change the water temperature; Check this too: Richmond Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide. Having a tankless water heater is an energy-efficient way of getting hot water. How do hot water recirculation pumps work to get hot water fast? If the problem persists after reset, replace the APS as soon as possible. 10.6 Maintenance 10.7.3 NPE-180A/240A Pump P-Q Curve The Navien NPE-180A and NPE-240A water heaters that are used . It sounds almost like cavitation or a magnet rubbing against the casing as the recirculating pump winds down. Does It Save Money? It means there is some issue with the flow sensor or switch. Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump - YouTube 0:00 / 4:21 Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump RCGooner2002 240 subscribers Subscribe. Do you want to know the details? Without the need for extra piping, this type of hot water circulation pump system also comes at a much lower cost. Below are different Navien water heater error codes and their solutions; Navien error code 003 how to fix indicates that there is an ignition failure in your unit. If the external recirc is set up without this it will just run, defeating the purpose of hot water on demand. Use your pump when you want to use it. (+ Installation Costs), How Many Amps Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? The second method seems to suggest the cold water at sinks will most likely have been run through the hot water tank. When you turn on the shower or a faucet, do you get hot water instantly? The only problem you have is there is no check valves in place check valves or like stop signs that direct traffic check valves, direct to flow of water. However, if you want hot water fast, these on-demand heaters are not ideal. To install a full recirculating pump system, you need to consult with a plumber because you will need an extra pipe. That's an interesting solution. Get a sump pump and connect the cold service hose to the sump pump. You also have to flush the heat exchanger. With the NRCR you can set your own schedule with a remote accessory and tailor the integrated pump to your lifestyle or scheduled needs. For example, if you get the tees backward, the recirculation pump will not function properly. If you add a powerful hot water circulation pump at the heater (not under the sink), the hot water will reach the faucet much faster. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot sometimes. Also the unit needs to be set to utilize the recirculation feature. Going off the grid sounds noble, satisfying and eco-friendly. If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. Open the pressure relief valve. The DIP switch setting has some problems. The water heater will not provide hot water instantly. sounds like you need a different plumber to assess your situation. Press the M (menu) button on the front panel and choose the 1. The user manual for these devices (of which I own two) provides a pretty good plumbing diagram for proper install. If you are looking for a tankless water heater that can provide you with hot water 24/7, Navien water heater is the way to go. This Navien 30010780C Circulation Pump for NPE Series is a genuine OEM repair part. Another suggestion I can give you is to maintain and service your Navien water heater according to the manual. The pump saves this cold water and recirculates it in the hot water. 3. To remedy this issue, turn off the heater for some time and restart it. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a tasteless, colorless, odorless, and highly poisonous gas which can be deadly to humans in high concentrations. Therefore, I can't drain the system. Depending on the age of your Navien NPE-A model, he did you a favor. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Not really. Make sure to follow our instructions properly for the right application. You can adjust the temperature while the display is flashing. Does the thing have a 'vacation' mode? We have one faucet in the kitchen that has instant scalding hot water the second you turn it on . Additionally, you can install a 5-micron filter in the water inlet right before the heater to remove impurities from the water. To remedy this, you can take the two clamps off the sensor, pull it out and clean it. For example, an open or shorted sensor causes this issue. Your article ended saying All in all, its important to understand that recirculation pumps are worth the money. Heres the thing: Both cold and hot water need to be supplied using the same pipe. I got a Navien NPE 240A2 installed in my home with dedicated recirculating line (hopefully I got the lingo right!) These are the 3 most often recommended brands for tankless water heaters with recirculation pumps. The main sign of motherboard or control board failure is intermittent switching off and on. Then remove the cold water filter off located next to the cold water isolation valve. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. You can also identify and fix them yourself. I guess the recirculation line will be the only one that is copper. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman to fix the issue. Navien tankless whole house HWH. The heating supply thermistor is defective. Increase water pressure at the water heater. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. All you have is a crossover valve underneath a sink somewhere also when plumbed correctly, all of that will only function with proper dip switch settings, perimeter settings, which is Pacific per heater model. W2 Wire Thermostat Wiring (2nd Stage), Thermostat Wire Color Codes For 3-8 Wire Thermostats (Color-By-Color), How Many Therms Of Gas Per Month Is Normal? The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? This gives you a negative return on investment (ROI), so. NEC 310.16 Table: Copper And Aluminum Wire Ampacity Chart, NEC 310.12 Table: Wire Sizes For 100-400 Amp Services (83% Rule), kWh To Therms Calculator + Conversion Chart (1 kWh = 0.03412 Therms), MMBTU To Therms Calculator + Chart (1 MMBTU = 10 Therms), Therms To MMBTU Calculator + Chart (1 Therm = 1/10 MMBTU), AWG To Circular Mils Chart (For 4/0 AWG To 20 AWG). Once the tank is thoroughly drained, clean the base of the heater. Navien tankless water heater recirculation March 31, 2016 At the push of a button, Navien 's HotButton accessory activates the internal recirculation pump and gas-fired burner to heat up the water in the supply lines. Besides, the E782 indicates that there is something wrong with the main panel communication. Do we keep the flames on after cooking? The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. Press J to jump to the feed. And. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. You can adjust the temperature by the below 10-degree increments, depending on the temperature range: 98 F-120 F/ 36 C-50 C 1 F or 0.5 C increments, 120 F-140 F /50 C-60 C Press for 2 seconds to adjust in 5 F or 2C increments. Putting one recirc line in won't turn a line and branch system into a loop system automatically. With two pipes, you can create a loop between the water heater and faucets. but you stopped short for me. However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink for a few seconds the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. This made me suspicious that water was coming from the mains. On the other hand, if you find no foreign stuff, ensure you purge the air out of the system. A hot water recirculating pump will save you money, especially if you have a larger family. Then re-insert the filter and screw it back in place. Remove the screw that secures the air intake filter and then remove the filter. Press the Power button on the front panel to turn off the water heater. FREE Returns . Press the Power button on the front panel to turn on the water heater. Tankless Water Heater Breaker Size Calculator: What Size Breaker? It does save you water but it also costs you a bit of electricity. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. I added an additional remote for a total of 3. What about adding the NaviLink WiFi board and controlling it from your phone anywhere? Then descale a flush the heater following the steps listed below. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Otherwise, this will cause the shut-off valve to get damaged. Only 19 left in stock - order soon. Page 12 Turn off and discontinue use of the water heater if any of the vent . It means that there is an issue with the air pressure sensor. So, ensure you purge the air out of the recirculation pump to operate the unit quietly. Some pumps, in order to avoid needing a dedicated return path, will recirculate the water via the cold water supply, so getting some hot water from the cold supply would be normal in this case. Why Does My RV Carbon Monoxide Detector Keep Going Off? It can occur due to an open or short sensor. I have the newest version pcb since I just bought the tankless. It is a visible sign that your devices cold water inlet two thermistor is having some issues.